Fascinating bit of info came up on the SABR listserv yesterday. Baseball Hall of Fame curator and Uni Watch pal Tom Shieber had asked a question about the exact dates when certain numbers had been retired, including the Pirates’ retirement of No. 1 for former manager Billy Meyer (who, as you can see, is listed here). That led to the following response from one of the list’s powerhouse researchers, Fr. John Hissrich:
I [too] have tried to track down information on Billy Meyer’s #1 with Pittsburgh — not only when it was retired, but WHY? Meyer had a just a few years as the Pirates manager and had a losing record, meaning that every Pirates manager for the last fifteen years is up for that honor [of number retirement].
In speaking with a woman who used to work for the Pirates, I was told that Meyer was widely remembered as “a nice guy,” but that hardly [merits] such a distinction. The best anyone has been able to suggest to me is that when the Pirates were first compiling a list of retired numbers, someone noticed that nobody had worn the number 1 since Meyer left. That probably had more to do with his successor, Fred Haney, simply taking a different number. In any event, Meyer’s name got on the list, and nobody has really seen any reason to try taking it off.
I don’t mean to pick on Pirates fans, who’ve endured a near-endless stream of indignities in recent years. But if Hissrich’s account is accurate, it means the Buccos have essentially retired a number due to a clerical error. That’s got to be a first.
And Hissrich was actually being kind when he said Meyer “had a losing record.” Meyer’s managerial record was 317-452, for a .412 winning percentage. That’s like going 67-95 over a 162-game season — and doing it over and over and over again. Not only that, but Meyer presided over one of the worst seasons in MLB history: the Pirates’ 1952 campaign, when the team went 42-112.
This raises the question of whether Meyer might be history’s least deserving number retiree (not counting owners and other dubious non-number-wearing sorts). It also makes you wonder why nobody else has questioned his retiree status until now.
Uni Watch News Ticker: The FedEx guy showed up at Uni Watch HQ yesterday afternoon and handed me an envelope. I wasn’t expecting anything, so I looked at the return address and was surprised to see “Joe Skiba, New York Football Giants.” Inside I found this — a few pieces of confetti from the aftermath of the Giants’ post-game celebration in Arizona. Is that cool or what? I have only one other artifact that compares: When the Mets won the NLCS to advance to the World Series in 2000, a sportswriter friend pocketed this champagne cork from the floor of their clubhouse and later gave it to me. Nice. … Speaking of the Mets, this looks pretty damn good to me. The Santana press conference also provided our first photographic view of the new Shea Stadium sleeve patch, as seen here, here, here, and here. … Nike has introduced a new soccer ball for FIFA-sponsored tournaments. Details here (with thanks to Jeremy Brahm). … The Russian army (the actual military, not the Red Army hockey team) has new uniforms (courtesy of Chris Bisbee). … Curt Schilling tells an interesting story about Sean Casey’s jersey here. … Lots of women’s hoops teams will be wearing pink for a 10-day span that begins this Friday. Details here. … Speaking of women’s hoops, Richard Musterer reports that Georgia Tech will be wearing 1979 throwbacks on February 29th. They’ll be modeled on this, and let’s hope that includes the socks. … “I just rented a great movie The Kingdom and noticed Jason Bateman’s character wearing an Orioles road cap for most of his scenes,” writes Jack Krabbe. “But in one scene the film must have been flopped, because the bird was facing the wrong way.” … Brian Flynn, who was quoted in yesterday’s entry about Punt, Pass & Kick, sent along some pics of the cap and pants (complete with Pepsi ad) that he wore during one of his Giants Stadium PP&K appearances. “I couldn’t find the jersey but I remember exactly what it looks like,” he writes. “It’s a regular replica jersey like you’d buy at Modells for your team (in my case, the Jets). But instead of numbers, it has the PP&K logo screened on the front and the team’s logo screened on the back.” … Incidentally, I didn’t realize that there was a PP&K-themed Charlie Brown special that apparently aired in 1994. Details and lots of still images (with some interesting uni details) here (big thanks to Corey Buck). … Nice little video clip here that finds Predators goalies Chris Mason and Dan Ellis discussing their mask designs (as forwarded by Wade D. Harder). … My former ESPN.com colleague Darren Rovell is now at CNBC, where he’s apparently getting ready to deliver a serious knob job to Phil Knight and Nike, in the form of a one-hour documentary set to air next Tuesday. A mercifully short promo clip is available here. … Jonathan Gault reports that England’s national soccer team unveiled their new away jersey in a friendly match with Switzerland on Tuesday. … Another late-’80s NFL jersey patch that I have no memory of: this one, which was worn by the Vikings in 1989. “The ‘40 for 60′ line stood for ‘40 men, 60 minutes,’ a saying by Joe Kapp,” explains Dan Sliwinski, who brought this one to my attention. … Scroll down to the “One Size Doesn’t Fit All” section of this page for some amusing details on how the Shaq trade created an instant headache for Phoenix’s equipment manager (with thanks to Alexander Benezra).
#1 by James Craven on 02.07.08 7:59 am |
I would like to comment anout one of yesterday’s comments on PP&K on the Mozilla Firefox.
It just says that, there’s nothing wrong about a browser that’s safer tha Windows Explorer to say the least.
#2 by KT on 02.07.08 8:25 am |
If it’s possible, Mexico’s jerseys last night were even worse-looking than the US jerseys. At least the US jerseys fit (though the NOBs were arched and for apparently no reason).
Mexico’s jerseys were too tight, the numbers on the back looked like they were drawn on, no NOB, the truncated adidas sleeve stripes, the white blob on the front of the collar…just bad.
#3 by lwiedy on 02.07.08 8:25 am |
Incidentally, I didn’t realize that there was a PP&K-themed Charlie Brown special that apparently aired in 1994. Details and lots of still images (with some interesting uni details) here (big thanks to Corey Buck).
http://search.ebay.c...
#4 by Gazzoo on 02.07.08 8:28 am |
Do they really use the name “New York Football Giants” on their mailing labels?
#5 by ML on 02.07.08 8:29 am |
The Russian army (the actual military, not the Red Army hockey team) has new uniforms (courtesy of Chris Bisbee). …
I want the women’s uniform coat. Seriously.
#6 by Mike Engle on 02.07.08 8:30 am |
So does the confetti gift make up for the Ahmad Bradshaw paint chip that Skiba threw away?
#7 by lwiedy on 02.07.08 8:31 am |
Hard to believe this team could have lost 120 games!
http://cgi.ebay.com/...
This post is intended solely for the entertainment purpose of our audience. It should in no way be construed as an endorsement of ebay, so please save your commentary (or motivational posters).
#8 by lwiedy on 02.07.08 8:36 am |
Great UPI wire photo from 1970. Shows the Seattle Pilots “converted” unis as well Thurman Munson with the plainest number style imaginable.
http://cgi.ebay.com/...
This post is intended solely for the entertainment purpose of our audience. It should in no way be construed as an endorsement of ebay, so please save your commentary (or motivational posters).
#9 by Justin PGH on 02.07.08 8:45 am |
Great article. I can’t wait until the Bucs retire Lloyd Mclendon and Jim Tracy’s Jerseys.
/Disgruntled Pirates Fan.
#10 by who cares on 02.07.08 8:52 am |
If you’re looking for body paint body paint you’ll definitely find it in abundance at CAN2008. There is, however, only one Zarla Show Boy. Folks, awesome has just been defined!
#11 by todd krevanchi on 02.07.08 8:52 am |
comment of the day… and its in the body.
this is similar to how milton kept receiving a paycheck at initech, however it wasnt a “clerical error” it was a “glitch in the system”.
#12 by Judd on 02.07.08 8:53 am |
My guess is this:
According to retroSheet.org, Billy Meyers was named Major League Manager of the Year by The Sporting News in 1948…
In 1947, Pittsburgh went 62-92 and in 1948 they went 83 - 71… a pretty big turnaround.
Maybe this is why?
#13 by Robert on 02.07.08 8:53 am |
With the use of models to demonstrate the new Russian women’s uniforms, I am reminded of Dan Aykroyd’s love interest in “Spies Like Us.”
#14 by lwiedy on 02.07.08 8:56 am |
“So we fixed the glitch!”
#15 by Robert on 02.07.08 8:57 am |
Even though I work at a small law firm, we once “hired” a law clerk to work as an associate upon graduation from law school. It seems that every partner mistakenly thought that some other partner had told her that we did not intend to make her an offer, and when she kept showing up, we felt too bad about it to just let her go.
#16 by ryan c #40 on 02.07.08 8:59 am |
…and… what was i JUST saying yesterday about the buccos??? ugh! gotta love them though… “gotta believe!” lol!!! my season tickets are in the mail!
p.s.
LOVE the new US soccer jerseys. i wish they would stick with them for, oh, i don’t know… a year or so? is that too much to ask?
#17 by Matt W. on 02.07.08 9:06 am |
“Serious knob job…”? Wow, I though Rovell does pretty good work at CNBC. I thought Paul just railed against the “evils” the Nike perpetrates on sports uniforms, not the entire company. What companies should he report on — LA Gear? K-Swiss?
#18 by LI Phil on 02.07.08 9:08 am |
the knoxville tennessee AA ball park was named after billy meyer, and it opened in 1955, one year after meyer’s number was retired
perhaps his number was retired in exchange for the pirates’ failure to return his stapler
#19 by todd krevanchi on 02.07.08 9:08 am |
interesting how at probably the most satisfying moment in ski’s professional career, when his team has just reached the ultimate goal, and pulled off perhaps one of the top 3 upsets in super bowl history, he had UW in mind and knew it would be a cherished item…
with all that confetti around, can you imagine the ebay value of it for giant fans around the country?
#20 by Rick White in Cedar Park, TX on 02.07.08 9:09 am |
And Aykroyd’s real life wife was Chevy Chase’s love interest in Spies Like Us.
#21 by Brian from Short Island on 02.07.08 9:14 am |
That NIKE ball won’t see nearly as much use as you suggest. adidas has the FIFA and UEFA contracts, and a NIKE ball is only used for UEFA Cup games (not Champions League or Euro), leagues where Nike is the ball sponsor, and for home friendlies of national teams for whom NIKE is the sponsor. The FIFA logo means it meets a rigid specification and has been tested by FIFA, and doesn’t imply endorsement. The specs are here.
#22 by Tim on 02.07.08 9:16 am |
in the flipped film from the kingdom, you can see the steering wheel in the vehicle behind the–its on the wrong side of the car.
#23 by Duckstyle on 02.07.08 9:17 am |
Those Mexico jerseys were pretty bad, and lathough I liked the US jerseys in pcitures, I don’t think they looked very good on the field. The red stripes were completly lost unless there was a closeup, and the socks were way to plain. I dunno, not terrible, but the last home uni was definitly better. Can Nike take a mulligan on that one?
#24 by Stuby on 02.07.08 9:17 am |
Yep. She was Sonny on “Bosom Buddies” with Tom Hanks.
#25 by Lee on 02.07.08 9:28 am |
so EPL, la liga, and serie a. the three biggest leagues in the world will be using it. thats quite a bit of use.
#26 by Adios el-Kabong on 02.07.08 9:30 am |
On Meyer - His retired number is questionable, but understandable. Meyer was highly regarded as a manager in the Yankees’ system for many years. He was once passed over for the Yanks mgr job, and then took Pgh and made them (immediately and briefly) respectable in 1948, contending for pennant into August and finishing 4th. The Yanks then wanted to make Meyer mgr - Pgh refused - so they turned to Stengel. It was well understood that the Pirates’ return to horribleness after 1948 wasn’t Meyer’s fault at all, but the fault of a broken organization (echoes of today’s Pirates, sadly). In 1950 the new Pirate majority owner John Galbreath hired Branch Rickey to turn the organization around. This took years, but in the latter half of the 50s the Bucs got better and better (2d in 58, WS in 60, and thirty years of mostly excellent baseball thereafter). Rickey eventually got the guys he wanted in the mgr job (Fred Haney and Bobby Bragan, before new GM Joe L. Brown turned to Danny Murtaugh), but there was a great affection for Meyer in Pgh and apparently great respect for him throughout baseball. Plus he died very soon after he left as Pirate mgr, and sentiment over his untimely death also had something to do with it.
The least deserving retired number of all time is #7 of your Washington Capitals, the great Yvon Labre. Beat that one.
#27 by Vyacheslav on 02.07.08 9:35 am |
I wonder where they got the idea for the Shea Stadium Patch?
http://www.logoserve...
#28 by Kim on 02.07.08 9:37 am |
Soccer jerseys are on a two year cycle. It’s been that way for the US National Team for quite a while. Expect new jerseys on each even numbered year. One set for World Cup Qualifying (this year), one set for the World Cup.
#29 by JBees on 02.07.08 9:37 am |
Wait, Shaq got traded to the Suns? Where have I been?
#30 by Slim and Slam on 02.07.08 9:38 am |
Re the Pirates retiring Meyer’s #1 despite his terrible record as manager:
Maybe they decided that the number was cursed, and retired it as a matter of self-preservation.
Based on their record since 1993, it didn’t work.
#31 by mg12 on 02.07.08 9:45 am |
I know there has been a decent amount of talk regarding Chivas’ sponosor Bimbo. It would’ve been nice to have seen this Bimbo sponsor follow with the Chivas US team, but everyone mentioned that this sponsor would not translate to the US market.
I thought it was interesting that even though last night’s freindly between US and Mexico was in Houston, Texas, Bimbo sponsorship was proudly displayed on the side and end boards.
The only picture I could find that illustrated this was featured in this article. Look at the back wall.
http://www.mlsnet.co...
#32 by Casey on 02.07.08 9:47 am |
The Portland Trail Blazers have some pretty pitiful retired numbers, too. They essentially started retiring most of the main players from the 1977 championship team, and ended up with guys like Dave Twardzik hanging from the rafters. He played only 4 seasons for Portland, averaging about 9 points, 2 rebounds, and 3 assists per game.
Larry Steele’s stats aren’t much better, but at least he played about 10 years for the Blazers.
Unfortunately, because they’ve retired so many numbers of undeserving past players, the Blazers now seem hesitant to retire the numbers of deserving, more recent players (see: Terry Porter).
#33 by Txhunter on 02.07.08 9:48 am |
The heck with the coat…I want the Russian woman soldier wearing that coat…
#34 by Fez Whatley on 02.07.08 9:57 am |
Santana wearing a white dress shirt for his press conference actually is one of the better jersey over dress shirt looks I can remember.
As Paul has documented, sometimes the player looks so silly.
#35 by Joe H on 02.07.08 10:00 am |
I can’t disagree more!!! Retired numbers do not have to 100% deal with stats! Yvon’s contributions were far reaching off the ice to an area that was new to the NHL. Hockey didn’t exist in DC before Yvon, and he was part of the reason it flourished.
From wiki: “Although he was never one to put up big offensive numbers, Labre’s value was noted in being a hard-nosed defensive defenseman on the ice and an active member of community programs and youth hockey programs off it. Such dedication to a team in a location not known for rich hockey history made him one of the Capitals’ most popular players during his time there.
Labre served as team captain from 1976 to 1978. He remained in the Capitals organization after his playing career ended. At various times since his retirement, he has served as an assistant coach, a color commentator, a scout and the director of community relations for the Capitals.”
#36 by ScottyJ in WV on 02.07.08 10:08 am |
Wait, are you talking about this Bimbo??? ;0)
#37 by Kim on 02.07.08 10:09 am |
It’s great that Yvon’s family put that on there. I’m sure he’s a great guy. But the Caps retired his number just to retire a number. They were a desperate team in the mid-80’s and having a sense of history may have helped them out.
Ask Ted Leonsis about hockey flourishing here in the Nation’s Capital.
#38 by Chance on 02.07.08 10:11 am |
I’m pretty sure that they do. That’s also how the receptionists answer the phone.
I for one love it. A charming throwback from a very classy organization.
#39 by Jason on 02.07.08 10:16 am |
I don’t believe Bobby Phills deserved the honor of having his number retired by the (then Charlotte) Hornets. He averaged about 12 points/game in 3 seasons, and was killed basically drag racing with a teammate. It’s always a tragedy when a life is cut short in it’s prime, but he was already in his 9th or 10th season and was certainly not going to be worthy of such a distinction.
Of course the Hornets have also retired Pete Maravich’s #7 and he didn’t play a single minute during the franchise’s existence. (I do see the connection, b/w Maravich and N.O., btw)
#40 by Perry on 02.07.08 10:18 am |
Nasty color, too, not nearly as nice as their usual shade of green. I liked the US jerseys in action better than I thought I would from photos. Good game, too. Well, except for the back 4 — I think Tim Howard was ready to deck one of them.
Are you sure that’s England’s away jersey Rooney is wearing? I know they generally wear white at home, but that game was at Wembley.
#41 by Paul Griebel on 02.07.08 10:21 am |
…the anti Nike stuff is wearing me out……
#42 by MIKE on 02.07.08 10:23 am |
Looks like the mets are going with a different blue cap, with a with button on top instead of an orange one, unless it was the lights at the press conference.
#43 by tim on 02.07.08 10:23 am |
I came in here to say the same thing. Holy jiminy jeez, that woman is beautiful. I’ve never been to Russia, so maybe they only export their top prospects… are all women over there unspeakably beautiful?
Interesting that the Russian army uniform redesign seems to bring the dress scheme very close to the NATO standard colors/organization.
#44 by Mike Edgerly on 02.07.08 10:24 am |
Isn’t that their Official Company name? Didn’t they incorporate with “Football Giants” way back in the ’20s because to distinguish from the “Baseball” Giants?
On the other hand I still call the Arizona NFL team the “Football Cardinals” although they left StL 20 years ago…
#45 by Griff on 02.07.08 10:24 am |
That Shea Stadium patch looks a lot like the Tiger Stadium memorial patch from ‘99.
#46 by Kim on 02.07.08 10:25 am |
Yeah, that’s their new away(red) shirt. They unveiled it this week and that game was the debut. Can you think of another way to boost sales?
#47 by Ben on 02.07.08 10:33 am |
Are the pinstripes on Santana’s jersey a lighter shade of blue than usual? In some of those pictures it looks like Carolina blue.
#48 by Mark in Shiga on 02.07.08 10:36 am |
Retired numbers are a pox on the game.
By purporting to show respect to the players whose numbers are being taken out of circulation, they’re showing disrespect to the future of the franchise and the sport.
These teams are confident that they’ll still be in existence a century or two from now, don’t they? The Yankees have retired 16 numbers in 78 years. Had baseball been in existence (and with numbers on uniforms) since American independence, 48 numbers would be gone at that rate, and had baseball begun with the Mayflower settlement, available Yankee numbers would begin at around 83.
It was a great gesture to retire Lou Gehrig’s number 4 back in 1939 before his untimely death, when jersey numbers had only been around for a decade and could have been just a passing fad, but now they’re here to stay.
I like the way the Toronto Maple Leafs do it — hand up the jerseys of the all-time greats, but don’t forbid new players from having the numbers. Give those highly-touted rookies a number with some weight and watch them try to live up to it!
Maybe they could compromise and leave just one number out every year. If the Pirates want to honor Billy Meyer, make #1 unavailable. Then it stays out of circulation until the next great Pirate retires and assumes the mantle. Right about now that Pirate would probably be Willie Stargell, whose #8 would have been hanging up for over two decades. Then you could really gauge how great a player was — by how long it took to unseat him as the team’s only retired number.
#49 by Duckstyle on 02.07.08 10:36 am |
No way, I want that Flock of Seagulls haircut the designer has!
#50 by Mark in Shiga on 02.07.08 10:37 am |
Uh oh, I broke the italics.
Paul, if you could be so kind, please change that sentence to:
“These teams are confident that they’ll still be in existence a century or two from now, aren’t they?”
#51 by Joe H on 02.07.08 10:39 am |
The point is that stats alone do not have to be the sole factor in retiring a number. The fans in Baltimore are clamoring to have Ellie Hendricks’ number retired because of his dedication to, and love for, the Orioles, and he deserves it. He’s a .220 career hitter, but nobody cares. He meant more to the game than that.
Also, every MLB doesn’t have #42 retired because of Jackie Robinson’s stats. Sometimes you look beyond them and see what that individual meant to the sport and the community.
#52 by Rick on 02.07.08 10:44 am |
Even though it is not a retired number, the Baltimore Ravens do have a Ring of Honor in the stadium and the first ever inductee was the undeserving Earnest Byner. I know Art Modell put him in there as a homage to his work for the then Browns (minus the fumble), but as a Raven he played for only two years and put up a whopping 947 rushing yards and 4 touchdowns. Hardly an effort worthy of a name in the Ring of Honor.
#53 by Ben on 02.07.08 10:44 am |
“The ‘40 for 60′ line stood for ‘40 men, 60 minutes,’ a saying by Joe Kapp,”
I think that phrase came out of the attempt to give Kapp the team MVP award. He refused the award saying somthing like “There’s no such thing as Santa Claus, there ain’t no Easter Bunny and there sure as hell ain’t a single MVP on this team”
#54 by Nicole on 02.07.08 10:47 am |
Both jerseys were just plain awful. The Mexico long sleeves looked like green fabric that was sewn to the short sleeves.
The NOB of the USA jerseys looked horrible over the top of the red horizontal pin stripes.
Just plain painful to watch!
#55 by KT on 02.07.08 10:50 am |
You’re overthinking.
It’s rare that any trend that starts out hot continues at its same pace. We have seen a slowdown in retired numbers (that’s just a guess, I know the number of teams has expanded over time, but it seems like the outliers like the Yankees and the Bears are the exceptions and nobody is retiring numbers at that pace) in recent years.
Retired numbers were a good idea, and I love the ceremony and the whole deal when a really deserving player gets to experience all that with the fans.
I do see your point that there are too many retired numbers and it’s become diluted.
But disrespecting the future of the franchise and the sport? I think that’s an overreaction.
#56 by Excalabur on 02.07.08 10:59 am |
Re: Football (soccer) Jerseys
Football doesn’t work with strict “home” and “away” jerseys. Most teams have a primary jersey and an alternate one for use when their primary jersey clashes with the other team’s kit.
The Dutch, as a famous example, wear their orange kit almost all the time, simply because it rarely conflicts with the other team’s choice, while their change kit (which has varied in colour over the years) mostly hangs in the closet.
The English don’t wear their reds all that often, so may have chosen to wear them last night just to show them off in a game that doesn’t count. As the home team, they get first choice, though as the Swiss usually wear red the whole thing was a bit backwards.
#57 by tBone on 02.07.08 10:59 am |
Georgia Tech’s women’s hoops team was called the Jackettes? Do they still use that name in any women’s sport? Does that appear on a uniform or in any other official capacity, or is it a nickname of a nickname?
#58 by The Ol Goaler on 02.07.08 11:03 am |
No, they’re talking about this “Bimbo” (hugging Betty Boop!)
Errr… maybe not!
#59 by Joe Morano on 02.07.08 11:14 am |
Re : Santana Press Conference
So, is there any way you can ask/confirm the Mets if really this means that they plan to wear the home pinstripes and blue caps more them in the last year at Shea? Ditch the Black!
#60 by Philly Bill on 02.07.08 11:18 am |
Not to speak ill of a man who died so young, but Barry Ashbee, whose #4 is retired by the Flyers, was a far less relevant pro athlete than Yvon Labre.
After toiling in the minors for years and recovering from a severe back injury, Ashbee played four years for the Flyers as a second- or third-pair defenseman, sustained a horrific eye injury in the ‘74 playoffs and had to retire, got hired as an assistant coach, was diagnosed with a rare form of leukemia shortly thereafter, and died a month later at age 37.
Hard-luck cases like this help define Philly sports.
Read glowing PR copy about him here: http://flyers.nhl.co...
PS - I hope Rovell reports from a sweatshop in Malaysia for that Nike special.
#61 by dm00n [Doug] on 02.07.08 11:30 am |
It was a good year for the confetti people, those colors would have worked for either team. (Unless they use red-white-blue every year as an NFL corporate thing, I am sure we have a confetti archivist here to weigh in).
#62 by Christopher on 02.07.08 11:47 am |
See this photo:
http://media.canada....
That’s Pittsburgh’s celebration over Seattle. All Red, White and Blue streamers.
I assume that is the protocol.
I will say this: when LSU won this year, the streamers were yellow and purple. Of course, that could have been because those were 2/3 of New Orleans colors, I don’t know.
#63 by LI Phil on 02.07.08 11:48 am |
best facepaint yet at afcup games
#64 by Oakdale Panther on 02.07.08 11:54 am |
Re: Billy Meyer’s retired number 1
I concur with Fr. John’s explanation that Ol’ Billy was considered a good guy, and so somehow his number was retired by the Pirates. I’ve read or heard the same story on more than one occasion. Maybe Meyer was quick to pick up the dinner tab! Sure looks like a mistake by the team — but you’d have to pin this one on the longtime (previous) owners of the Pirates — the Galbreaths. For all of its sins, the current ownership had Nutting to do with it.
Prior to the 1970s, the Pirates had only two retired numbers — Meyer’s 1 and Honus Wagner’s 33 (which he actually wore as a Bucco coach, since players in his day did not have uni numbers).
Beginning with the retiring of Roberto Clemente’s number 21 (in 1973), the Pirates have gone on a somewhat of a mothballing spree: No. 4 (Ralph Kiner), No. 8 (Willie Stargell), No. 9 (Bill Mazeroski), No. 20 (Pie Traynor), No. 40 (Danny Murtaugh have been retired, and Paul Waner’s No. 11 joined the club last season. All of these Pirates were worthy of this respect.
However undeserved the honor may be for Meyer’s No. 1, unretiring it would be bad form, and possibly bad karma. As a Pirates’ fan, I would not want this wretched franchise to bring any more bad luck upon itself. The Curse of Francisco Cabrera is doing fine on its own.
#65 by Jeff on 02.07.08 11:54 am |
Has this ever been talked about before:
http://cgi.ebay.com/...
#66 by Kerry P on 02.07.08 11:57 am |
Uh, purple and gold are not 2/3 of New Orleans’ color. The city’s FLAG is a red, white and blue tri-color with yellow fleur-de-lis on it. And the city’s SEAL doesn’t have purple or gold.
Purple and gold are 2/3 of the MARDI GRAS colors.
#67 by Kerry P on 02.07.08 11:58 am |
Can someone please restore the comment I just made. The Spam filter got it.
#68 by Joe H on 02.07.08 12:03 pm |
Am I the only one that misses the days when MLB jerseys actually had arch to their names?
I mean, how cool is that!
#69 by My Name is not Earl on 02.07.08 12:14 pm |
I doubt it. There was a time when a lot of schools did cute little things like that with their women’s teams’ names. For instance, I grew up in New Orleans, so I can remember when LSU’s teams were the Ben-Gals and the University of New Orleans’ teams were the Buc-ettes. Now, lots of schools have done away with even “Lady” designations (La Tech and Tennessee not withstanding). I even think USC is phasing out “Women of Troy” in favor of just plain “Trojans.”
#70 by lwiedy on 02.07.08 12:22 pm |
Wow, I haven’t seen those since my Little League days (1972). We used them running the bases. After batting we’d flip off the helmet and put these on.
#71 by Marty Met on 02.07.08 12:23 pm |
Santana’s uniform would be perfect if they got rid of the black drop shadows.
#72 by Jeff on 02.07.08 12:24 pm |
Billy Meyer’s baseball card makes him look like Sloth from The Goonies
#73 by LI Phil on 02.07.08 12:26 pm |
i know we’ve talked about this before, and it’s pretty apparent the yankees will retire #2…someday
but…how about #6?
that’s a pretty impressive resume mr. torre tabulated in his time with the yanks
the last to wear their numbers?
#74 by Dave in VA on 02.07.08 12:27 pm |
I remember as a youngster watching Barry Ashbee play for the Flyers; he was a great defenseman who never got the accolades. Seeing him take a puck to the face against the Rangers in ‘74 is one of the few things I still remember vividly from that season (game was on NBC on a Sunday afternoon). Not sure if he warrants his jersey being retired, but he was MUCH MORE relevant than Yvon Labre, IMO.
#75 by LI Phil on 02.07.08 12:28 pm |
but then it would be boring
#76 by lwiedy on 02.07.08 12:29 pm |
Arch is nice, but vertical arch rules!
http://i256.photobuc...
#77 by Mets Fan AZ on 02.07.08 12:30 pm |
I think that’s what the “other team” was wearing in the movie Sandlot.
#78 by Hank on 02.07.08 12:37 pm |
Speaking of the Flyers, I attended last night’s game where they inducted Ron Hextall into their Hall of Fame. Which is a good way to honor a key player without retiring the number. While watching the video tribute to Hexy, I focused on the various masks he wore throughout his career with the Flyers from his bland birdcage, to the arrow, Liberty Bell, to the Philly skyline.
Love him or loathe him, Hexy changed the way goalies play the game.
#79 by Dane on 02.07.08 12:41 pm |
This has been an ongoing argument on some NY Rangers discussion boards - does Adam Graves really deserve to have his number retired? It’s been a two-fisted attack. (1) Other than one really great season and one Cup, do his career numbers merit this honor? Graves’ defenders say that his post-playing contributions to the Rangers organization far outweigh his on-ice performance. (Ken Daneyko of the NJ Devils has also been mentioned in these arguments.) (2) If you’re going to retire number 9, you better include Andy Bathgate on that banner.
Personally, I think retiring a number should be for playing/coaching performance only. I never saw Bathgate play, but his numbers suggest that he is just as deserving as Graves.
(I actually have a significantly negative opinion of Adam Graves, but I have tried to set that aside for the sake of a civilized discussion.)
This argument will accomplish nothing, of course. Dolan has made his decision, and the banner goes up next season whether anyone likes it or not.
#80 by Joe H on 02.07.08 12:42 pm |
boring…really?
#81 by MikeR on 02.07.08 12:42 pm |
Interesting note on retired numbers — Washington State University (inadvertently?) retired the wrong number for an old football player.
The school retired Mel Hein’s (the HOF NY Giants lineman from the 1930s) #7, but the problem was, he didn’t wear #7 while he was at WSU (or, WSC at the time). He wore #8 for the Cougars. Apparently the school chose to retire the number that he was more famous for wearing. Either that or they just screwed up.
#82 by Denis on 02.07.08 12:49 pm |
I actually heard that one of the reasons Meyer’s number got retired was becasue he was married to the owner’s daughter. I heard it on Mark Madden’s show last summer. I am 95% positive that was the case. Believe it or not his love life got his number retired. I think thats a great tactic.
What about a UniWatch party in Pittsburgh???
#83 by Nuk on 02.07.08 12:53 pm |
My favourite retired uniform story goes to the BC Lions of the CFL.
Kapp had his number retired after he left the Lions for the Vikings in the late 60’s. In 1990 he returned to become GM of the Lions. His big signing was Doug Flutie - and considered it such a big deal that he “unretired” his number 22 to give to Flutie.
The problem was that Kapp, and his coach Larry Kuharich - didn’t bring anybody else. The team was godawful - and Kapp was fired 11 games into the season. Flutie left two years later - but for the next few years - they left 22 unretired as Kapp’s GMimg left such a sour taste. Jon Volpe wore 22 for awhile, and the number lost a little of its luster.
Fortunately time heals all wounds and Kapp’s number was quietly re-retired a few years ago.
Is there any other history of a player’s number being “un-retired” for various reasons?
#84 by Joey Guns on 02.07.08 12:53 pm |
I was thinking Rodney Dangerfield……
http://www.rodney.co...
#85 by AK on 02.07.08 12:57 pm |
Why would the Vikes wear that 20th Anniversery patch?!? Basically, it could’ve just said “Sucking ass for the past 20 years!”
#86 by GoTerriers on 02.07.08 12:58 pm |
The White Sox retired #3 for Harold Bained while he was still an active player. He later came back to finish his career with the Pale Hose and wore his own “retired” number . . . does that count?
#87 by GoTerriers on 02.07.08 1:00 pm |
I of course meant Harold BAINES. Not sure who this “Harold Bained” character is . . .
: )
#88 by Chance on 02.07.08 1:03 pm |
There’s a Catholic high school in my native Milwaukee which uses “Popes” as its mascot. The girls’ teams are, I kid you not, Lady Popes.
#89 by who cares on 02.07.08 1:06 pm |
University of Florida’s football team retired 11 for Steve Spurrier and 74 for Jack Youngblood. When Spurrier took over the reigns as coach he unretired both numbers. Now 11 and 74 sit alongside 22 (Smith), 7 (Wuerffel), and 88 (Marshall) in the Ring of Honor but no numbers are off limits.
Speaking of Emmit’s #22, I picked up a replica in orange when Nike released a few unnamed throwbacks to celebrate the team’s 100th Anniversary. Nothing against Emmit, but one of my all time favorite Gators when I was but a lad was John L. Williams. I want to get a name put on the back of the jersey but my 8 and 9-year old mind wasn’t savvy enough to store the format of his NOB in my long-term memory. Does anyone here remember if it was J. L. Williams or John L. Williams?
#90 by Jeff on 02.07.08 1:07 pm |
The Lions did the unretire deal to sign Pat Swilling:
http://en.wikipedia....
http://en.wikipedia....
#91 by Robin on 02.07.08 1:12 pm |
Glad you cleared that up Kerry. If you hadn’t, I was about to.
I’m sure there was some crimson and grey confetti up there somewhere that thankfully never saw the light of day.
Go Tigers!
#92 by GoTerriers on 02.07.08 1:16 pm |
Along these same lines, consider if you will, the case of Travis Roy, the former Boston University hockey player who, in 1995, was paralyzed on the ice just 11 seconds into his first collegiate shift.
Travis has worked tirelessly to assit others who suffer from paralysis, has established the Travis Roy Foundation and continues to serve as a beacon of hope and inspiration to disabled people and the Boston University Hockey community.
In 1999, before what would have been the start of his senior season as a Terrier, the BU Athletic Department made the decision to retire the number 24 that Travis wore for those 11 seconds. The number had previously been worn by BU captains (Mike Sullivan and Jacques Joubert) as well as by players who eventually left BU to NHL stardom (Keith Tkachuk) and others.
In the long tradition of BU Hockey, with the countless players who have gone on to NHL success, Travis’ number 24 remains the ONLY number the administration has taken out of active use.
The numbers don’t mean everything.
#93 by Juan Grande on 02.07.08 1:18 pm |